Subject: Re: OT- Republicans coming to accept McCain
Author: daveparks
Date: 6 Feb
Ref:

On Feb 6, 10:48 am, Mickey <mickey_and_ed...@sbcnomorephishglobal.net>
wrote:
> daveparks wrote:
> > On Feb 6, 8:56 am, Mickey <mickey_and_ed...@sbcnomorephishglobal.net>
> > wrote:
> >> daveparks wrote:
> >>> On Feb 5, 5:50 pm, Mickey <mickey_and_ed...@sbcnomorephishglobal.net>
> >>> wrote:
> >>>> daveparks wrote:
> >>>>> On Feb 5, 4:18 pm, Mickey <mickey_and_ed...@sbcnomorephishglobal.net>
> >>>>> wrote:
> >>>>>> daveparks wrote:
> >>>>>>> On Feb 5, 3:45 pm, Mickey <mickey_and_ed...@sbcnomorephishglobal.net>
> >>>>>>> wrote:
> >>>>>>>> daveparks wrote:
> >>>>>>>>> On Feb 5, 1:27 pm, Mickey <mickey_and_ed...@sbcnomorephishglobal.net>
> >>>>>>>>> wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>> daveparks wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>>> On Feb 5, 12:54 pm, "Cure_Ewan" <karrde_smuggl...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>>>> "Aaron" <aaron...@msn.com> wrote in message
> >>>>>>>>>>>>news:270747f5-f09c-4dcb-8152-d74cab678b9d@s13g2000prd.googlegroups.com...
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/22943524
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Article about how many Republicans are coming to accept that it's
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> McCain or a Democrat in 2008, and becoming less critical of him over
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> time. It also features a counter to Rush's statement that McCain would
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> destroy the Republican Party that I enjoyed, though it was just a
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> short comeback.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> I especially hope that TC reads this and finds a way to accept this
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> reality with more grace than he has in the past.
> >>>>>>>>>>>> Those who know where I stand politically may be shocked to hear this, but I
> >>>>>>>>>>>> would never, ever, ever vote for McCain. I would throw my vote to the
> >>>>>>>>>>>> Libertarian candidate and hand the election over to Obama or Clinton. The
> >>>>>>>>>>>> way I see it, McCain is a carbon copy of either of the Democratic
> >>>>>>>>>>>> candidates. When the country goes down in flames over the next five years
> >>>>>>>>>>>> as it undoubtedly will under McClintbama, I know who I want to get the
> >>>>>>>>>>>> blame.
> >>>>>>>>>>> I'm guessing there are going to be a lot of "Let's Have Some Drinks &
> >>>>>>>>>>> *Not* Vote for McCain" parties come election day. No, really.
> >>>>>>>>>> My advice. Keep your powder dry. Once the internecine warfare is over
> >>>>>>>>>> and more realistic comparisons are made of Whoever and Whatever, some
> >>>>>>>>>> folk might want to rethink their commitments to go in the corner and sulk.
> >>>>>>>>>> The Other Mickey
> >>>>>>>>> I don't know Mickey - a LOT of the Pugs with whom I've spoken aren't
> >>>>>>>>> or haven't been all that thrilled with what Bush has (or hasn't) done
> >>>>>>>>> lately; what with the southern border, spending, not to mention the
> >>>>>>>>> Iraq mess - seems to me that many are just getting tired of holding
> >>>>>>>>> their noses.
> >>>>>>>> Hey, I'm not crazy about the Southern border situation, I'm not crazy
> >>>>>>>> about the budget bloat, and the Middle East was a problem before Bush
> >>>>>>>> and will be for the foreseeable future. None of this persuades me to
> >>>>>>>> ignore the other issues that are still in play.
> >>>>>>>> I just voted and, as has been too frequently the case, I voted against
> >>>>>>>> someone, i.e., voted the lesser evil. I will continue to do so as often
> >>>>>>>> as necessary, waiting for one of those rare occasions when I feel I am
> >>>>>>>> voting for someone. It is my civic duty. Think of it as providing a
> >>>>>>>> delaying action while the forces of civilization prepare for a counter
> >>>>>>>> attack.
> >>>>>>>> The Other Mickey
> >>>>>>> Good take, and one with which I pretty much agree - especially now
> >>>>>>> when we still have a choice; but as former Democrat, Ronald Reagan
> >>>>>>> stated, "I didn't leave the Democratic Party. It left me."
> >>>>>>> With all the "voting for the lesser of two evils" and "holding my nose
> >>>>>>> while I vote" comments I've been hearing, I can see the same thing
> >>>>>>> happening with Pug conservatives.
> >>>>>> They don't really have anywhere to run and it's doubtful that all that
> >>>>>> many will persist in their "my way or the highway" notions once the real
> >>>>>> choice is revealed. Pick your issue and the choice is really pretty
> >>>>>> clear. The thing that is pissing off the wingnuts is that the election
> >>>>>> this cycle is about the "middle," which is where it belongs.
> >>>>>> I heard some radio nut job today talk about traditional Republicans,
> >>>>>> when it was abundantly clear she was talking about the right wing of the
> >>>>>> party. Barry Goldwater would have had about as much use for them as he
> >>>>>> did for Al Gore.
> >>>>>> The Other Mickey
> >>>>> I see your point - and while we've seen McCain's idea of working
> >>>>> "with" the Dems to center the party, in what ways are the Dems doing
> >>>>> the same?
> >>>> Other than the gang of 14 participants, we haven't seen any.
> >>> Exactly - and it's been that way for decades, seemingly strengthened
> >>> duing the Clinton years; the whole "WE against the mean ol' Rich White
> >>> Uncaring Republicans" - it seems that the Dems idea of compromise is a
> >>> Pug agreeing with their position - with McCain doing exactly that.
> >> I don't think you're being quite fair to McCain. His voting record over
> >> all is on the conservative end of the spectrum. In a twenty five year
> >> Congressional career, his opponents point to only 3 pieces of
> >> legislation he sponsored that the right wing of the party finds
> >> troublesome, one of which he has repudiated. As for the fiscal
> >> questions, he is conservative, but more inclined to be a deficit hawk
> >> than a tax cutter. To some degree, he is right. Tax cutting without
> >> spending restraint only delays the reckoning.
>
> >>>> The leadership of the Democratic party in Congress are from the left end of
> >>>> the spectrum. The centrist Democrats need to take back their party every
> >>>> bit as much as the Republican middle did (and does). (During the last 12
> >>>> years a lot of moderates from both sides lost their seats, to more
> >>>> extreme candidates from the other party, thus increasing the polarization.)
> >>>> In Congress, the solution is to resolve the splinter issues, disempower
> >>>> the extremist constituents of both parties, and get to real work. While
> >>>> splinter or wedge issues, like abortion rights, could be resolved to the
> >>>> satisfaction of most folk, there is no reason for the leadership of the
> >>>> two parties to come to such an accommodation, since it would immediately
> >>>> disempower them.
> >>>> To encourage, blackmail, or flog Congress toward such activities, it
> >>>> would be useful to have a President who isn't worrying about a second
> >>>> term, who is willing to play dirty with Congress and honest with the
> >>>> public, and who is not beholding to the leadership of his own party. I'd
> >>>> happily settle for two out of three.
> >>>> The Other Mickey
> >>> Good points -
> >>> - "a President who isn't worrying about a second term"
> >>> - "is willing to play dirty with Congress and honest with the public"
> >>> - "who is not beholding to the leadership of his own party"
> >>> Seems to me that an very successful independent businessman with
> >>> proven experienced in the private and political sector is much closer
> >>> to those suggestions - than a stale 20yr career politician who's
> >>> biggest claims to political fame are agreeing with and being courted
> >>> to join the opposing party.
> >> McCain is only really courted by the most moderate Democrats, other
> >> mavericks like Lieberman, if you will - folk more interested in
> >> advancing the people's business as they understand it, rather than their
> >> party's political agenda. (I really have to discount any stories
> >> suggesting he seriously considered crossing the aisle to run with
> >> Kerry.) I do find his immigration stance troubling, but without a full
> >> explanation from him of what he expected to accomplish, I will to give
> >> him the benefit of the doubt. In any event, he repudiated that piece of
> >> proposed legislation.
>
> >> (Don't be fooled by the present mayor of New York. He's a Democrat in
> >> Independent's clothing. I also don't think we can afford a total naif in
> >> defence and foreign policy issues right now, which is why I favor
> >> Hillary over Obama.)
>
> >> As I've stated, McCain is not my first choice, but of the bodies still
> >> standing, he is the best of the lot, given the times.
>
> >> The Other Mickey
>
> > Fair points - but it does stink that once again conservatives may be
> > put in a "Vote For The Lesser of Two Evils" position.
>
> > The Dems have something to vote *for*, either the First Woman or the
> > First Black President,
>
> Why should gender or race be a reason to vote for or against a
> candidate? I believe the term is prejudice.

In a perfect world gender/race wouldn't be an issue - but the polls/
demos don't lie; blacks are overwhelmingly supporting Obama against a
much more experienced politician with a record of seeking and
receiving support from the black community for years.
There are political/policy differences between the two, but the most
is obvious.

On the flip side, there was the tendency for women by and large to
vote for Hillary early on; Obama, with the support of his wife, Oprah,
Maria Shriver, and anything else in a skirt has been steadily chipping
away at that demo - but it was/is there.


> There are a number of better
> people in the Democratic Party than either of them.

Same could probably be said of the Pugs - but look where we are.

> The Other Mickey



OT- Republicans coming to accept McCain
5 FebCure_Ewan
5 Feb|- daveparks
5 Feb|  \ Mickey
5 Feb|     |- Sanna
5 Feb|     |  |- Aaron
5 Feb|     |  \ daveparks
7 Feb|     |     \ Sanna
7 Feb|     |        \ daveparks
7 Feb|     |           \ Sanna
5 Feb|     |- Aaron
5 Feb|     \ daveparks
5 Feb|        \ Mickey
5 Feb|           \ daveparks
5 Feb|              |- Mickey
5 Feb|              |  |- daveparks
5 Feb|              |  |  \ Mickey
6 Feb|              |  |     \ daveparks
6 Feb|              |  |        \ Mickey
6 Feb|              |  |           |- Aaron
6 Feb|              |  |           \ daveparks
6 Feb|              |  |              \ Mickey
6 Feb|              |  |                 \ daveparks
5 Feb|              |  \ Jamie Brinkoet…
5 Feb|              \ topcat
6 Feb|                 |- Cure_Ewan
6 Feb|                 |  \ topcat
6 Feb|                 |     |- Jamie Brinkoet…
6 Feb|                 |     |  |- Mickey
6 Feb|                 |     |  |- Cure_Ewan
6 Feb|                 |     |  |  |- Jamie Brinkoet…
6 Feb|                 |     |  |  |- Jamie Brinkoet…
6 Feb|                 |     |  |  |  \ Cure_Ewan
6 Feb|                 |     |  |  |     \ zob
6 Feb|                 |     |  |  |        \ topcat
6 Feb|                 |     |  |  |           \ Vandar
6 Feb|                 |     |  |  |              \ Cure_Ewan
7 Feb|                 |     |  |  |                 \ topcat
7 Feb|                 |     |  |  |                    \ Vandar
7 Feb|                 |     |  |  |                       |- topcat
7 Feb|                 |     |  |  |                       |  \ Vandar
7 Feb|                 |     |  |  |                       \ Mickey
7 Feb|                 |     |  |  \ Newk Indofman
6 Feb|                 |     |  |- daveparks
6 Feb|                 |     |  |  \ topcat
6 Feb|                 |     |  |     |- daveparks
7 Feb|                 |     |  |     \ fmomoon
7 Feb|                 |     |  |        \ topcat
11 Feb|                 |     |  |           \ fmomoon
6 Feb|                 |     |  \ topcat
6 Feb|                 |     |     \ Vandar
6 Feb|                 |     |        |- Mickey
7 Feb|                 |     |        |  \ topcat
7 Feb|                 |     |        |     \ Sanna
7 Feb|                 |     |        |        |- topcat
7 Feb|                 |     |        |        |  |- Sanna
7 Feb|                 |     |        |        |  |  |- Cure_Ewan
7 Feb|                 |     |        |        |  |  |  |- Sanna
7 Feb|                 |     |        |        |  |  |  \ daveparks
7 Feb|                 |     |        |        |  |  |     \ Sanna
7 Feb|                 |     |        |        |  |  \ topcat
7 Feb|                 |     |        |        |  |     |- Vandar
7 Feb|                 |     |        |        |  |     \ Sanna
7 Feb|                 |     |        |        |  |        \ Vandar
7 Feb|                 |     |        |        |  \ Aaron
7 Feb|                 |     |        |        \ Aaron
6 Feb|                 |     |        |- Cure_Ewan
6 Feb|                 |     |        |  \ Vandar
7 Feb|                 |     |        \ topcat
7 Feb|                 |     |           \ Vandar
7 Feb|                 |     |              \ topcat
7 Feb|                 |     |                 \ Vandar
6 Feb|                 |     \ zob
6 Feb|                 |        |- Cure_Ewan
6 Feb|                 |        |- Vandar
6 Feb|                 |        \ Aaron
6 Feb|                 \ Aaron
6 Feb|                    \ Cure_Ewan
6 Feb|                       |- Mickey
6 Feb|                       \ Jamie Brinkoet…
6 Feb|                          \ Vandar
6 Feb|                             |- dixichik
6 Feb|                             \ Jamie Brinkoet…
5 Feb|- topcat
5 Feb|  \ Cure_Ewan
6 Feb|     |- Sanna
6 Feb|     \ topcat
6 Feb|        |- Cure_Ewan
6 Feb|        \ Aaron
6 Feb\ Newk Indofman
6 Feb   |- topcat
6 Feb   |  |- zob
6 Feb   |  |  |- fmomoon
6 Feb   |  |  |  \ zob
7 Feb   |  |  |     \ fmomoon
6 Feb   |  |  |- Cure_Ewan
6 Feb   |  |  |- topcat
6 Feb   |  |  \ daveparks
7 Feb   |  \ Newk Indofman
7 Feb   |     \ Cure_Ewan
9 Feb   |        \ Newk Indofman
6 Feb   \ Cure_Ewan
6 Feb      |- zob
6 Feb      |  |- Cure_Ewan
6 Feb      |  |  \ zob
6 Feb      |  |     |- topcat
6 Feb      |  |     |  \ Cure_Ewan
7 Feb      |  |     |     |- topcat
7 Feb      |  |     |     |  \ fmomoon
7 Feb      |  |     |     |     |- Vandar
7 Feb      |  |     |     |     \ Cure_Ewan
7 Feb      |  |     |     |        |- zob
7 Feb      |  |     |     |        \ fmomoon
7 Feb      |  |     |     \ zob
7 Feb      |  |     |        \ Cure_Ewan
6 Feb      |  |     |- Cure_Ewan
6 Feb      |  |     |  \ Vandar
6 Feb      |  |     |     |- Cure_Ewan
6 Feb      |  |     |     |  \ Vandar
7 Feb      |  |     |     |     \ zob
7 Feb      |  |     |     |        \ Vandar
7 Feb      |  |     |     \ zob
7 Feb      |  |     |        \ Vandar
7 Feb      |  |     |           \ zob
7 Feb      |  |     \ fmomoon
7 Feb      |  \ Newk Indofman
7 Feb      \ Newk Indofman