>> daveparks wrote:
>>> On Feb 5, 5:50 pm, Mickey <mickey_and_ed...@sbcnomorephishglobal.net>
>>> wrote:
>>>> daveparks wrote:
>>>>> On Feb 5, 4:18 pm, Mickey <mickey_and_ed...@sbcnomorephishglobal.net>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>> daveparks wrote:
>>>>>>> On Feb 5, 3:45 pm, Mickey <mickey_and_ed...@sbcnomorephishglobal.net>
>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>> daveparks wrote:
>>>>>>>>> On Feb 5, 1:27 pm, Mickey <mickey_and_ed...@sbcnomorephishglobal.net>
>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> daveparks wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> On Feb 5, 12:54 pm, "Cure_Ewan" <karrde_smuggl...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>> "Aaron" <aaron...@msn.com> wrote in message
>>>>>>>>>>>> news:270747f5-f09c-4dcb-8152-d74cab678b9d@s13g2000prd.googlegroups.com...
>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/22943524
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Article about how many Republicans are coming to accept that it's
>>>>>>>>>>>>> McCain or a Democrat in 2008, and becoming less critical of him over
>>>>>>>>>>>>> time. It also features a counter to Rush's statement that McCain would
>>>>>>>>>>>>> destroy the Republican Party that I enjoyed, though it was just a
>>>>>>>>>>>>> short comeback.
>>>>>>>>>>>>> I especially hope that TC reads this and finds a way to accept this
>>>>>>>>>>>>> reality with more grace than he has in the past.
>>>>>>>>>>>> Those who know where I stand politically may be shocked to hear this, but I
>>>>>>>>>>>> would never, ever, ever vote for McCain. I would throw my vote to the
>>>>>>>>>>>> Libertarian candidate and hand the election over to Obama or Clinton. The
>>>>>>>>>>>> way I see it, McCain is a carbon copy of either of the Democratic
>>>>>>>>>>>> candidates. When the country goes down in flames over the next five years
>>>>>>>>>>>> as it undoubtedly will under McClintbama, I know who I want to get the
>>>>>>>>>>>> blame.
>>>>>>>>>>> I'm guessing there are going to be a lot of "Let's Have Some Drinks &
>>>>>>>>>>> *Not* Vote for McCain" parties come election day. No, really.
>>>>>>>>>> My advice. Keep your powder dry. Once the internecine warfare is over
>>>>>>>>>> and more realistic comparisons are made of Whoever and Whatever, some
>>>>>>>>>> folk might want to rethink their commitments to go in the corner and sulk.
>>>>>>>>>> The Other Mickey
>>>>>>>>> I don't know Mickey - a LOT of the Pugs with whom I've spoken aren't
>>>>>>>>> or haven't been all that thrilled with what Bush has (or hasn't) done
>>>>>>>>> lately; what with the southern border, spending, not to mention the
>>>>>>>>> Iraq mess - seems to me that many are just getting tired of holding
>>>>>>>>> their noses.
>>>>>>>> Hey, I'm not crazy about the Southern border situation, I'm not crazy
>>>>>>>> about the budget bloat, and the Middle East was a problem before Bush
>>>>>>>> and will be for the foreseeable future. None of this persuades me to
>>>>>>>> ignore the other issues that are still in play.
>>>>>>>> I just voted and, as has been too frequently the case, I voted against
>>>>>>>> someone, i.e., voted the lesser evil. I will continue to do so as often
>>>>>>>> as necessary, waiting for one of those rare occasions when I feel I am
>>>>>>>> voting for someone. It is my civic duty. Think of it as providing a
>>>>>>>> delaying action while the forces of civilization prepare for a counter
>>>>>>>> attack.
>>>>>>>> The Other Mickey
>>>>>>> Good take, and one with which I pretty much agree - especially now
>>>>>>> when we still have a choice; but as former Democrat, Ronald Reagan
>>>>>>> stated, "I didn't leave the Democratic Party. It left me."
>>>>>>> With all the "voting for the lesser of two evils" and "holding my nose
>>>>>>> while I vote" comments I've been hearing, I can see the same thing
>>>>>>> happening with Pug conservatives.
>>>>>> They don't really have anywhere to run and it's doubtful that all that
>>>>>> many will persist in their "my way or the highway" notions once the real
>>>>>> choice is revealed. Pick your issue and the choice is really pretty
>>>>>> clear. The thing that is pissing off the wingnuts is that the election
>>>>>> this cycle is about the "middle," which is where it belongs.
>>>>>> I heard some radio nut job today talk about traditional Republicans,
>>>>>> when it was abundantly clear she was talking about the right wing of the
>>>>>> party. Barry Goldwater would have had about as much use for them as he
>>>>>> did for Al Gore.
>>>>>> The Other Mickey
>>>>> I see your point - and while we've seen McCain's idea of working
>>>>> "with" the Dems to center the party, in what ways are the Dems doing
>>>>> the same?
>>>> Other than the gang of 14 participants, we haven't seen any.
>>> Exactly - and it's been that way for decades, seemingly strengthened
>>> duing the Clinton years; the whole "WE against the mean ol' Rich White
>>> Uncaring Republicans" - it seems that the Dems idea of compromise is a
>>> Pug agreeing with their position - with McCain doing exactly that.
>> I don't think you're being quite fair to McCain. His voting record over
>> all is on the conservative end of the spectrum. In a twenty five year
>> Congressional career, his opponents point to only 3 pieces of
>> legislation he sponsored that the right wing of the party finds
>> troublesome, one of which he has repudiated. As for the fiscal
>> questions, he is conservative, but more inclined to be a deficit hawk
>> than a tax cutter. To some degree, he is right. Tax cutting without
>> spending restraint only delays the reckoning.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>>> The leadership of the Democratic party in Congress are from the left end of
>>>> the spectrum. The centrist Democrats need to take back their party every
>>>> bit as much as the Republican middle did (and does). (During the last 12
>>>> years a lot of moderates from both sides lost their seats, to more
>>>> extreme candidates from the other party, thus increasing the polarization.)
>>>> In Congress, the solution is to resolve the splinter issues, disempower
>>>> the extremist constituents of both parties, and get to real work. While
>>>> splinter or wedge issues, like abortion rights, could be resolved to the
>>>> satisfaction of most folk, there is no reason for the leadership of the
>>>> two parties to come to such an accommodation, since it would immediately
>>>> disempower them.
>>>> To encourage, blackmail, or flog Congress toward such activities, it
>>>> would be useful to have a President who isn't worrying about a second
>>>> term, who is willing to play dirty with Congress and honest with the
>>>> public, and who is not beholding to the leadership of his own party. I'd
>>>> happily settle for two out of three.
>>>> The Other Mickey
>>> Good points -
>>> - "a President who isn't worrying about a second term"
>>> - "is willing to play dirty with Congress and honest with the public"
>>> - "who is not beholding to the leadership of his own party"
>>> Seems to me that an very successful independent businessman with
>>> proven experienced in the private and political sector is much closer
>>> to those suggestions - than a stale 20yr career politician who's
>>> biggest claims to political fame are agreeing with and being courted
>>> to join the opposing party.
>> McCain is only really courted by the most moderate Democrats, other
>> mavericks like Lieberman, if you will - folk more interested in
>> advancing the people's business as they understand it, rather than their
>> party's political agenda. (I really have to discount any stories
>> suggesting he seriously considered crossing the aisle to run with
>> Kerry.) I do find his immigration stance troubling, but without a full
>> explanation from him of what he expected to accomplish, I will to give
>> him the benefit of the doubt. In any event, he repudiated that piece of
>> proposed legislation.
>>
>> (Don't be fooled by the present mayor of New York. He's a Democrat in
>> Independent's clothing. I also don't think we can afford a total naif in
>> defence and foreign policy issues right now, which is why I favor
>> Hillary over Obama.)
>>
>> As I've stated, McCain is not my first choice, but of the bodies still
>> standing, he is the best of the lot, given the times.
>>
>> The Other Mickey
> put in a "Vote For The Lesser of Two Evils" position.
